Pastor Bob: 00:00:06

Welcome to the Faith Based Business Podcast with your host, Pastor Bob Thibodeau.

Pastor Bob: 00:00:12

On this podcast, we interview fellow entrepreneurs who are willing to share their stories, their trials, and their triumphs in business, all in an effort to help you avoid the same obstacles and to achieve success faster.

Pastor Bob: 00:00:26

But at all times, continue to rely on our faith to see us through to victory.

Pastor Bob: 00:00:31

Now with today's guest, here is your host, Pastor Bob Thibodeau.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:00:40

Hello, everyone, everywhere.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:00:41

Pastor Robert Thibodeau here.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:00:43

Welcome to the Faith Based Business Podcast.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:00:46

We are so blessed that you are joining us today.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:00:48

Have you ever wondered why some companies seem to effortlessly reach their goals while others struggle despite having all the right tools?

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:00:57

The answer often lies.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:00:59

And one of the most overlooked aspects of business success, company culture.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:01:05

It's the invisible force that guides every decision and action.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:01:09

But far too often, the culture we envision doesn't really match the reality we live every day.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:01:16

To help us unravel this mystery and learn how you can shape and transform your company or your business culture to align with your vision, I'm excited to be joined again by Wayne Mullins, the founder of Ugly Bug Marketing.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:01:28

Wayne's expertise goes far beyond just creating a nice website.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:01:32

He and his team focus on helping you to achieve the results you want through effective marketing, social media, events, SEO, and much, much more.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:01:41

Wayne Mullen and his team are always results oriented and everything that they do.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:01:46

This is why they believe Ugly Mug marketing can help you build the business of your dreams too.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:01:51

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:01:51

Wayne's also the author of the book Full Circle Marketing as well.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:01:55

Praise God.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:01:55

Now, if you're ready to learn how bridge that gap between where your company culture is and where it needs to be, this conversation is one you can't afford to miss.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:02:05

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:02:05

With that being said, help me welcome back back to the program, Wayne Mullins.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:02:09

Wayne, it's a blessing to have you back with us again today, brother.

Wayne Mullins: 00:02:13

Thank you so much.

Wayne Mullins: 00:02:14

It's a beautiful day today.

Wayne Mullins: 00:02:15

No matter what the weather is outside, we have that choice to make today beautiful.

Wayne Mullins: 00:02:18

So I'm glad to be here.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:02:20

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:02:21

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:02:21

iew, I believe it was episode: 1528

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:02:26

If you did miss that, folks, go back and listen because Wayne was dropping several value bombs there.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:02:31

That'll definitely help you in your SEO battle.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:02:34

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:02:34

But Wayne, for those that may have missed that, can you tell us in your own words, who is Wayne Mullins?

Wayne Mullins: 00:02:40

Sure thing.

Wayne Mullins: 00:02:41

I am a husband and father of four amazing kids.

Wayne Mullins: 00:02:44

I happen to also run this agency called Ugly mug marketing.

Wayne Mullins: 00:02:48

And through the work that we do here, we get to impact a lot of other entrepreneurs and subsequently all of the customers or clients they interact with.

Wayne Mullins: 00:02:57

So it's.

Wayne Mullins: 00:02:58

It's a very exciting and challenging thing that we're up to here.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:03:02

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:03:03

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:03:04

And last time when we did our interview, it was about what you do and how you help businesses and entrepreneurs with SEO and all that.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:03:11

Today, I wanted to focus on, like I said, one of the most important aspects of running a successful business, and that's of company culture.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:03:19

And I know I've worked for companies where I dreaded going to work, you know, and I've also worked for organizations where I actually looked forward to going to work because I love the job, I love the people, and I believed in the mission.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:03:32

How important is company culture in the success of a business?

Wayne Mullins: 00:03:39

It is the thing, Pastor Bob.

Wayne Mullins: 00:03:41

It is.

Wayne Mullins: 00:03:41

It is the absolute most important piece or element.

Wayne Mullins: 00:03:44

It was Peter Drucker who once said that culture eats strategy for breakfast.

Wayne Mullins: 00:03:50

And what he meant by that was simply this.

Wayne Mullins: 00:03:53

You can spend all your resources, you can spend all the time, you can hire the brightest minds in the world to help you come up with a wonderful, beautiful strategy for your organization.

Wayne Mullins: 00:04:04

But if your culture is one of disengagement, of disinterest, where people don't want to be there, it doesn't matter what strategy you have, it's not going to be implemented.

Wayne Mullins: 00:04:15

And it.

Wayne Mullins: 00:04:15

If it is implemented, it's not going to be implemented in a way or in a manner that is impactful.

Wayne Mullins: 00:04:21

So culture is the thing.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:04:24

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:04:25

Well, what exactly makes up a successful company culture?

Wayne Mullins: 00:04:30

Yeah, I think it's important to start with understanding kind of what is the root word or where does this thing called culture come from.

Wayne Mullins: 00:04:37

And the word culture actually shares the same Latin root word as cultivate.

Wayne Mullins: 00:04:43

And so when we think of the term cultivate, that's typically a gardening or a farming term, Right?

Wayne Mullins: 00:04:49

It's to cultivate the soil.

Wayne Mullins: 00:04:51

And I love to think about organizational culture as just that.

Wayne Mullins: 00:04:55

The culture is the soil in which the teams, the clients, the customers, everyone interacts.

Wayne Mullins: 00:05:02

And it is our job as leaders to ensure that that soil is cultivated in such a way that when the seeds, when the teams are planted in that soil, they can thrive, can grow, and they can produce amazing results.

Wayne Mullins: 00:05:17

Sadly, we often try to manage the people, ignoring the culture, ignoring the soul that we've planted them in.

Wayne Mullins: 00:05:25

And so we spend our days as leaders frustrated, trying to micromanage, trying to get people to come along and to pick up their game and to, you know, be motivated.

Wayne Mullins: 00:05:37

And yet what we don't realize is we've planted them in this toxic, very nutrient depleted soil where there's no room for them to put their roots in.

Wayne Mullins: 00:05:48

There's no room for them to thrive.

Wayne Mullins: 00:05:49

So that is why culture matters to organizations today.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:05:53

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:05:54

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:05:54

I know, you know, you list three mistakes that sabotage company culture.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:05:59

Can you go over those three common mistakes for us?

Wayne Mullins: 00:06:02

Absolutely.

Wayne Mullins: 00:06:03

So I'm going to go through them quick and then we can dive in as much detail as you want in each one.

Wayne Mullins: 00:06:08

But the first one is this, that as leaders, we believe that company culture is something we will get to one day.

Wayne Mullins: 00:06:16

Right.

Wayne Mullins: 00:06:17

So for years my experience was that one day, once things you get to a good level, once we plateau, once we get to this point where we have plenty of money coming in and everything seems to be operating well, I will then get to company culture.

Wayne Mullins: 00:06:31

And so that's mistake number one.

Wayne Mullins: 00:06:32

Company culture is not something you can wait until you get to.

Wayne Mullins: 00:06:37

I love to say this, that, that if you are unintentional about building a great culture, then you are intentionally allowing a dysfunctional and a low performing culture.

Wayne Mullins: 00:06:50

So that's mistake number one.

Wayne Mullins: 00:06:51

The next mistake is this the confusion between alignment and autonomy.

Wayne Mullins: 00:06:56

I see this so often with leaders.

Wayne Mullins: 00:06:58

They want to give their team autonomy to go execute, right?

Wayne Mullins: 00:07:01

They, they don't want to have to micromanage.

Wayne Mullins: 00:07:03

But it seems like every time they send their people out to go do things to go, they are frustrated because their, their team member didn't do things the way they wanted it done or completely went down the wrong path.

Wayne Mullins: 00:07:14

And then the team members frustrated because they just did what they thought was best.

Wayne Mullins: 00:07:18

And now you're upset with them and they're upset with you.

Wayne Mullins: 00:07:20

And so it's just this negative thing.

Wayne Mullins: 00:07:22

So we have to understand the balance between alignment and autonomy.

Wayne Mullins: 00:07:26

And then the final one is this.

Wayne Mullins: 00:07:28

There's a big difference between implicit and explicit communication.

Wayne Mullins: 00:07:33

And so often as leaders, we make the assumption that we have made everything explic.

Wayne Mullins: 00:07:39

In other words, it's crystal clear what we expect, what our values are, et cetera, when in reality most often some of those things are still implicit, they're implied.

Wayne Mullins: 00:07:50

And it's our responsibility to clearly articulate and to make the implicit explicit.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:07:57

Yeah, and I want to go back to the second point.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:08:01

Then I want to come back to three, because a lot of times those organizations that I was in where it was toxic, they say, okay, this is what needs to happen, it needs to be done.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:08:14

By here, make it work.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:08:16

And that's your instructions, you know, and it's up to you to figure out exactly, okay, should we do this abc, or should we do CDE first and then come back to A and B?

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:08:29

And when you implement, then like you said, it's, no, that's not what I wanted.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:08:35

But there is no, you know, and then they get really upset because now they're going to dive in and fix it so it meets a deadline and.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:08:44

And all of that goes on.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:08:46

How can leaders not allow that to happen?

Wayne Mullins: 00:08:52

Yeah, this, this the million dollar question, Pastor Bob.

Wayne Mullins: 00:08:54

This is the thing that I see so often in organizations where they get stuck.

Wayne Mullins: 00:09:01

And what happens is as leaders, we get so busy, right?

Wayne Mullins: 00:09:05

We have so many different plates up in the air spinning or our balls that we're trying to juggle, that we're trying to keep up and going, that we neglect some very fundamental things.

Wayne Mullins: 00:09:15

Some things that we all agree are important, like our vision, our mission, our values, our expectations.

Wayne Mullins: 00:09:22

We all across the board understand that those things are important.

Wayne Mullins: 00:09:26

But what happens is we push those things to the side because there's so much more, more that is screaming at us right now, right?

Wayne Mullins: 00:09:32

There's so many more things that are urgent that we need to focus on, and those are the core elements that we must create alignment around in our organizations.

Wayne Mullins: 00:09:42

So when, when we think about these things, every single person on your team needs to answer these four questions.

Wayne Mullins: 00:09:48

Number one, where are we going?

Wayne Mullins: 00:09:51

That is the vision.

Wayne Mullins: 00:09:52

Like, where are we trying to get to?

Wayne Mullins: 00:09:53

What does our future look like?

Wayne Mullins: 00:09:55

The next question is, why does this matter?

Wayne Mullins: 00:09:59

In other words, we're trying to get to this destination, to this future.

Wayne Mullins: 00:10:02

Why does this matter?

Wayne Mullins: 00:10:03

And that's our mission, right?

Wayne Mullins: 00:10:05

Why do we exist?

Wayne Mullins: 00:10:07

We exist, for example, here we exist to help entrepreneurs sleep better at night.

Wayne Mullins: 00:10:12

That is our mission.

Wayne Mullins: 00:10:13

That is why we exist.

Wayne Mullins: 00:10:15

And what that does is then that creates the picture for what we're trying to create.

Wayne Mullins: 00:10:19

That also creates a deeper meaning behind the work that we do, right?

Wayne Mullins: 00:10:23

It's no longer just about a marketing campaign or a website.

Wayne Mullins: 00:10:26

It's about how do we make it so that these businesses grow so that entrepreneurs don't have to worry about their growth.

Wayne Mullins: 00:10:33

So, you know, where are we going?

Wayne Mullins: 00:10:36

Why does it matter?

Wayne Mullins: 00:10:37

What's expected of me as a team member?

Wayne Mullins: 00:10:39

So in relation to those two things, what's expected of me and my role?

Wayne Mullins: 00:10:44

And again, there's a huge gap here.

Wayne Mullins: 00:10:46

Most often when people are hired and they review their job description or their role statement, that is the last time that there's conversation around how this person's role fits into accomplishing the mission and the vision for the organization.

Wayne Mullins: 00:11:01

And then the final question is this.

Wayne Mullins: 00:11:03

How will you measure my performance?

Wayne Mullins: 00:11:06

We just want to make that crystal clear.

Wayne Mullins: 00:11:08

Here's how we are going to measure your performance.

Wayne Mullins: 00:11:10

Your performance is going to be measured on A, B, C and D.

Wayne Mullins: 00:11:13

Now here's the thing.

Wayne Mullins: 00:11:14

It's our job as leaders to ensure that they can clearly understand how they are doing at any point in time.

Wayne Mullins: 00:11:22

It shouldn't be this big mystery.

Wayne Mullins: 00:11:24

I see this time and time again in organizations where, you know, they do maybe it's a quarterly or, you know, it's every six months or an annual performance review with their team members.

Wayne Mullins: 00:11:33

And the entire time in between those things, the employees have no clue how they're actually performing.

Wayne Mullins: 00:11:39

And then when they show up to these performance reviews, it's like this big mystery.

Wayne Mullins: 00:11:42

Are you gonna be.

Wayne Mullins: 00:11:43

Are you gonna be happy with me?

Wayne Mullins: 00:11:44

You're gonna be mad at me?

Wayne Mullins: 00:11:45

Are you gonna be somewhere in the middle and different?

Wayne Mullins: 00:11:46

Like.

Wayne Mullins: 00:11:47

So we need to ensure that our team members have tools so that they can quickly and easily determine how they are individually performing in relation to what we just talked about, man.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:11:58

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:11:59

Yeah.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:11:59

And I tried to be a leader as when.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:12:06

And this, I think, goes back to the culture.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:12:09

Like you said, if someone's doing a great job, let them.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:12:12

Man, you really did good on this.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:12:15

And here's what you did that we weren't expecting.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:12:18

But man, the client really loved it type thing that lets them know their vision, their success was because of their initiative.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:12:27

And then I've also had conversations with, you know, you go back in and say, well, what's, what's the status on this project?

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:12:34

Oh, well, I was working over here, so I had a chance to get to it yet.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:12:37

Well, you know, that's due by end of business Friday.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:12:39

Right.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:12:40

You know, you need to bring me at least an outline in so we can go over it and make sure you're on the right page.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:12:46

And that type of input from the leader is so important because this person was thinking, well, I know he gave me this to do, but this is also important.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:12:56

So I got to take care of this first because he gave me that first, you know, and really this Project B now supersedes the importance of project A because you get to A later, you know, and by having that type of constant feedback, and not constant, that's a bad word, periodic check in and feedback during the course of the project.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:13:18

You know, I used to have meetings Every morning.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:13:21

And you know, we had like a team meeting in my agency on Friday afternoon before everyone disappeared for the weekend, talking about what's coming up next week.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:13:32

Okay.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:13:33

And then we'd have a meeting, just, I mean a very informal type thing, you know.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:13:37

Okay.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:13:38

What are you working on today?

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:13:39

Okay, great.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:13:40

Oh, okay.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:13:41

Something's changed over the weekend.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:13:42

We need to change this.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:13:43

Instead of that being due Wednesday, I need it this afternoon type thing.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:13:47

point checklist done by: 10:00

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:14:03

So you didn't walk out at 1:30 and say, hey, by the way, last week we talked about that checklist.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:14:07

Have you got it done yet?

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:14:09

Oh, I thought it was due tomorrow.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:14:10

No, I need it in like 20 minutes, you know, type thing.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:14:13

So that, yeah, that constant again, the constant is a bad word.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:14:18

That Continual, continual updates and just checking in.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:14:23

Hey, you know, do you need, you have any questions on this?

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:14:26

You know, I got some free time.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:14:27

I can make some phone calls for you if you don't have it.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:14:30

And by doing that, our agency grew within about 18 months to be the number two selling agency for the major, for the company we were working with nationwide.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:14:43

You know, just starting off from scratch.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:14:45

I mean, we shot up the charts quick.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:14:47

And, and that was, that was because that's how I tried to organize.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:14:52

We're all a team.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:14:54

It's not me, boss, you employee.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:14:59

We're all a team.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:15:00

You know, I could go off on a business trip and not even worry about having to call into the office, see what's going on.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:15:06

Because they all knew what they had to do.

Wayne Mullins: 00:15:08

Yeah, yeah.

Wayne Mullins: 00:15:09

I think what you're, what you're describing right there is exactly what we were talking about.

Wayne Mullins: 00:15:13

We were talking about the difference between explicit and implicit communication.

Wayne Mullins: 00:15:17

When you have those regular, that regular cadence for feedback and conversation, what you're doing is you're bringing forth the things that may have been implied, right.

Wayne Mullins: 00:15:28

In the communication.

Wayne Mullins: 00:15:29

You're bringing them, you're making them explicit, you're explaining them, you're making sure that they're hearing it correctly, that they understand it.

Wayne Mullins: 00:15:35

I know that so often in our leadership journeys, what happens is we believe we've clearly communicated or clearly articulated something to our team or to an individual on our team.

Wayne Mullins: 00:15:46

And what happens is we have such a different context, a different lens through which we are looking, that we are we are imparting some of those things implicitly.

Wayne Mullins: 00:15:58

Right.

Wayne Mullins: 00:15:58

We're implying that they understand, they know these things.

Wayne Mullins: 00:16:01

And again, we have to switch that.

Wayne Mullins: 00:16:04

We have to flip it through their lens and we have to make sure that we are over communicating and that we're spelling out in more detail than we think is necessary to ensure we are on the same page.

Wayne Mullins: 00:16:14

And your, your description of kind of the, the frequency of communication there is a wonderful method of ensuring that everyone is on the same page, everyone is pulling in the same direction.

Wayne Mullins: 00:16:28

I think sometimes as leaders, we think, well, I don't need to do that.

Wayne Mullins: 00:16:32

Right?

Wayne Mullins: 00:16:33

I have a team.

Wayne Mullins: 00:16:33

They should know how to do this stuff.

Wayne Mullins: 00:16:35

We shouldn't have to meet every, every week or every day.

Wayne Mullins: 00:16:38

But I can tell you it's the discipline of doing those things that makes your life and makes your culture so much stronger.

Wayne Mullins: 00:16:47

We as leaders have to set the precedent for that.

Wayne Mullins: 00:16:51

We have to show up for those.

Wayne Mullins: 00:16:53

We need to be on time, we need to be prepared, and we need to hold those regular communication rhythms as a high priority in our organizations.

Wayne Mullins: 00:17:01

And when we do that one, it just cuts through the noise and creates immense clarity for everyone on the team.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:17:10

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:17:11

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:17:11

So what makes a company culture toxic?

Wayne Mullins: 00:17:19

Yeah, I think when it comes to our company culture, again, if we go back to the soul analogy, what happens by default is we tend to look at individual people, right.

Wayne Mullins: 00:17:30

When we think of a culture, we think of we've got people with bad attitudes or people who aren't performing or people who are disengaged.

Wayne Mullins: 00:17:38

And I think that's a mistake.

Wayne Mullins: 00:17:40

We have to go a layer deeper and we have to look at the culture.

Wayne Mullins: 00:17:44

And when I say the culture, we have to look at what we tolerate and what we embrace as leaders.

Wayne Mullins: 00:17:52

Because at the end of the day, the most difficult person that you or I will ever have to lead is not someone else on our team.

Wayne Mullins: 00:18:01

It is the person who looks back at us in the mirror every single morning.

Wayne Mullins: 00:18:05

That is the person we must start with.

Wayne Mullins: 00:18:08

I'm a firm believer in this idea that our businesses, our organizations are merely reflections of ourselves.

Wayne Mullins: 00:18:15

So if, if our business is showing up as disorganized and chaotic, chances are that's a reflection of us, right?

Wayne Mullins: 00:18:22

That's a reflection of our mindset.

Wayne Mullins: 00:18:24

And so I believe that a toxic culture starts when you as the leader, point blame at everyone else.

Wayne Mullins: 00:18:34

So when, when the issues are everyone else's problem, and if you find yourself as a leader complaining about people don't want to work anymore, that they're Lazy, they don't want to show up all of these things.

Wayne Mullins: 00:18:45

You are the one fostering a toxic culture in your organization.

Wayne Mullins: 00:18:51

Instead, if you choose to believe that the people you have chosen to be on your team are amazing human beings who want to show up, who want to do a good job, when they come to your place of business, then it changes your whole mindset.

Wayne Mullins: 00:19:04

Yes, they may make mistakes.

Wayne Mullins: 00:19:06

Yes, you may have to coach, you may have to guide, you have to.

Wayne Mullins: 00:19:08

May have to be persistent.

Wayne Mullins: 00:19:10

But again, look at ourselves.

Wayne Mullins: 00:19:12

How often do we set intentions in a certain area and say we're going to do certain things, whether I'm personal or on business side, and we get into it a week or two weeks, and we fall off the track, right?

Wayne Mullins: 00:19:23

We.

Wayne Mullins: 00:19:23

We lose our commitment that we've made to ourselves so our team members do the same thing.

Wayne Mullins: 00:19:30

We need to learn to have grace for them in the same way that we have grace for ourselves.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:19:35

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:19:36

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:19:36

Well, if you're the business owner, then, and based on what you just shared as the owner, how can we begin to make a successful cultural change?

Wayne Mullins: 00:19:47

The first place you have to start with cultural change is in the mirror.

Wayne Mullins: 00:19:51

That is, number one.

Wayne Mullins: 00:19:53

It starts with you.

Wayne Mullins: 00:19:54

I see this again time and time again when I talk to entrepreneurs and business owners.

Wayne Mullins: 00:19:59

The constant complaint is this.

Wayne Mullins: 00:20:01

No one wants to work anymore.

Wayne Mullins: 00:20:03

They're lazy.

Wayne Mullins: 00:20:03

They're always on their phone.

Wayne Mullins: 00:20:04

They're this, they're that, they're this.

Wayne Mullins: 00:20:06

They are speaking into existence, the culture that they're willing to tolerate.

Wayne Mullins: 00:20:12

They are speaking that into existence.

Wayne Mullins: 00:20:14

And so the more that I focus on those things, the more I focus on, they're lazy, they're entitled, they're whatever those words are, the more I'm going to look for evidence of those things.

Wayne Mullins: 00:20:25

What we focus on expands.

Wayne Mullins: 00:20:28

So it starts, number one, with, with me and my understanding that if my team, If I feel today that my team is lazy, entitled, you know, whatever those words are, I have to work on shifting my belief first.

Wayne Mullins: 00:20:41

That's number one.

Wayne Mullins: 00:20:42

Number two, you have to go to them with an apology.

Wayne Mullins: 00:20:48

You have to take full ownership.

Wayne Mullins: 00:20:50

You have to go before your team and sincerely apologize.

Wayne Mullins: 00:20:54

And when I say sincerely apologize, that's why it's so important to.

Wayne Mullins: 00:20:57

To start with us.

Wayne Mullins: 00:20:58

That's why it's so important to understand that the culture we have today is a reflection of what we've tolerated up until this point.

Wayne Mullins: 00:21:05

Yeah, we have to go to them, we have to apologize.

Wayne Mullins: 00:21:07

We need to go before the team and say, look, up until this point, I apologize, I'VE allowed us to slide into this place.

Wayne Mullins: 00:21:16

I've allowed us to slide into negativity.

Wayne Mullins: 00:21:18

I've been focusing on the wrong things.

Wayne Mullins: 00:21:20

I have been focusing on things that are disempowering.

Wayne Mullins: 00:21:25

They're not encouraging.

Wayne Mullins: 00:21:27

And I'm apologizing to you.

Wayne Mullins: 00:21:29

I am going to focus on the good.

Wayne Mullins: 00:21:31

I'm going to be a good finder.

Wayne Mullins: 00:21:33

But there's going to be some expectations from you as well.

Wayne Mullins: 00:21:36

We are no longer going to talk about each other behind each other's backs.

Wayne Mullins: 00:21:40

We're no longer going to look for the bad.

Wayne Mullins: 00:21:42

We're always going to look for the good.

Wayne Mullins: 00:21:44

So again, number one, start with the person in the mirror.

Wayne Mullins: 00:21:46

Number two, go before the team and apologize.

Wayne Mullins: 00:21:49

And then the third one would be pick one of the things we've already talked about.

Wayne Mullins: 00:21:53

You know, either focus on making the things that are implied more explicit or focus on getting alignment around those things that matter most.

Wayne Mullins: 00:22:01

Your.

Wayne Mullins: 00:22:02

Your vision, your mission, your values, your expectations.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:22:05

Yeah.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:22:06

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:22:06

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:22:07

Well, is this something that needs to be done gradually so no big changes, you know, or is it better just to, you know, identify the problem and dive in?

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:22:16

And let's get it straight.

Wayne Mullins: 00:22:19

I would say the answer depends on you and your temperament as a leader.

Wayne Mullins: 00:22:23

So by default, this is a broad general generalization here.

Wayne Mullins: 00:22:28

But entrepreneurs tend to jump from thing to thing to thing, right?

Wayne Mullins: 00:22:32

The next big idea is the thing we're going to.

Wayne Mullins: 00:22:34

We're going to pursue.

Wayne Mullins: 00:22:35

We're going to run down this path.

Wayne Mullins: 00:22:36

And so what I caution people to do is if that has been your temperament, in other words, that has been the way you've operated your organization, you're always heading down a path.

Wayne Mullins: 00:22:46

And then another big idea, we're going to go down this path.

Wayne Mullins: 00:22:48

Another big idea.

Wayne Mullins: 00:22:49

What I want you to do is temper this.

Wayne Mullins: 00:22:52

I want you to slow this down a bit.

Wayne Mullins: 00:22:55

So I don't want you just to jump in.

Wayne Mullins: 00:22:57

Because what's going to happen is everyone's going to say, oh, here comes the next big initiative.

Wayne Mullins: 00:23:01

This will last about two or three weeks, and then we're on to the next thing.

Wayne Mullins: 00:23:04

So instead, I need you as a leader to put together a roadmap, put together a plan, make some commitments to yourself that you're willing to uphold and honor.

Wayne Mullins: 00:23:14

So back to what you.

Wayne Mullins: 00:23:16

What you explained.

Wayne Mullins: 00:23:17

Whether that's a Friday afternoon, you know, all hands on deck type of meeting for, for the plan of action for next week, whether that's, you know, a weekly team meeting, whether that's weekly one on ones, whether that's Weekly education with your team.

Wayne Mullins: 00:23:30

You need to commit and be serious to committing to whatever those things are that you know are broken in your organization.

Wayne Mullins: 00:23:38

And what I can tell you, and you pointed this out earlier, is that oftentimes we believe we're communicating, but we're not.

Wayne Mullins: 00:23:48

And so you need to increase the frequency of communication with your team.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:23:53

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:23:54

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:23:55

What about someone who's working at one of these companies we're talking about, how should they, or how should they approach the boss or department head about implementing changes?

Wayne Mullins: 00:24:08

I think first of all, from my perspective, you know, as a leader, I would love for someone to approach me and say, hey, here's some things I've observed.

Wayne Mullins: 00:24:17

This is not a critique.

Wayne Mullins: 00:24:19

This is not a criticism.

Wayne Mullins: 00:24:20

This is just something I've observed.

Wayne Mullins: 00:24:22

And I would love to work with you and figure out how we can go about shifting this and making this transition and turning our culture into something different, something better.

Wayne Mullins: 00:24:32

And so I would first see if there's response, a positive response to that.

Wayne Mullins: 00:24:36

Because if there's not a positive response to that, then you're going to be fighting an uphill battle.

Wayne Mullins: 00:24:42

And depending on your level of authority within the organization, it may be a battle that you're never going to win.

Wayne Mullins: 00:24:48

So I would begin there.

Wayne Mullins: 00:24:50

If there's receptiveness to that, that message, which in most organizations I would love to believe that there would be positive response to that, then what I would do is I would create the dialogue between you and your boss, you and your leader.

Wayne Mullins: 00:25:05

Allow them to feel as if some of these things are their ideas.

Wayne Mullins: 00:25:10

When we allow other people to feel that they've created the ideas, the buy in is so much better.

Wayne Mullins: 00:25:17

And then we can come alongside them, help guide and help steer those conversations.

Wayne Mullins: 00:25:21

So what I would say is, regardless of position, regardless of title in the organization, that is the place to begin.

Wayne Mullins: 00:25:27

The place to begin is, hey, here's some things I've observed.

Wayne Mullins: 00:25:30

I have some ideas around how we could to could work through those and transition.

Wayne Mullins: 00:25:35

Would you be willing to put some time on the calendar to chat about these things on a, you know, weekly basis for the next few weeks?

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:25:41

Yeah.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:25:42

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:25:42

You know, as you're talking about that, I was thinking back when we had our agency, you know, if we had to make copies of whatever we, you know, the copy place was just down the street, you know, go down there and make, you know, 100 copies.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:25:59

So we pass them out to all the agents and all this stuff.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:26:02

And you know, you're doing this half a dozen times a week, maybe and, you know, and someone came in and say, you know, instead of paying, I think back then it was like 5 cents a copy or something like that.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:26:16

s,: 1990

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:26:25

We can rent a copier and have it here in the office for just about the same amount of money we're paying them right now.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:26:32

And people leave in the office to go make copies a couple times a day, you know, and so.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:26:37

Oh, that's a good idea.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:26:38

Let me, let me see.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:26:39

Check into that.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:26:39

And we end up getting a copy machine in the office.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:26:41

And it cost us probably 20 bucks more a month than what we were paying, but it was saving people from having to walk, you know, four doors down and then come back up and, you know, all that.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:26:55

They were staying right there in the office.

Wayne Mullins: 00:26:56

Yeah.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:26:57

So for us, that was a good investment.

Wayne Mullins: 00:26:59

Absolutely.

Wayne Mullins: 00:27:00

And that's a great example, though, of, you know, I think that is true for most leaders, not all leaders, but most leaders are open and receptive to ideas that make things operate more smoothly, that benefit the business, that benefit the customers, that benefit the team.

Wayne Mullins: 00:27:15

Team.

Wayne Mullins: 00:27:16

But sometimes I think that the people on our teams feel intimidated.

Wayne Mullins: 00:27:20

They don't feel it's their place, and that's a mistake.

Wayne Mullins: 00:27:24

Because you, you know, when we think of leadership, we often by default, we think of a title or a position.

Wayne Mullins: 00:27:31

Leadership, at the end of the day, is about one thing, and that's influence.

Wayne Mullins: 00:27:35

And I.

Wayne Mullins: 00:27:36

I genuinely believe that anybody, regardless of position, can have influence on the entire organization.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:27:43

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:27:43

Yeah, that's right.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:27:45

That's right.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:27:45

This is, this is so interesting.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:27:47

Do you go over any of this information in your book, Full Circle Marketing?

Wayne Mullins: 00:27:51

I don't, actually.

Wayne Mullins: 00:27:52

So the marketing book is solely about marketing.

Wayne Mullins: 00:27:55

But.

Wayne Mullins: 00:27:55

But what's fascinating, Pastor Bob, is this, that, you know, we are a marketing agency.

Wayne Mullins: 00:27:59

People bring us in because they need help with marketing or websites or whatever the thing may be.

Wayne Mullins: 00:28:04

But as we get into the organizations, as we start helping them deploy these things, one of the things that we quickly discover is that there's some culture issues within the organizations.

Wayne Mullins: 00:28:16

And we know that if we can help them overcome those things, it's going to benefit the organization as a whole, is going to make their marketing that much more effective.

Wayne Mullins: 00:28:25

Because when customers call or prospective customers call or stop by.

Wayne Mullins: 00:28:29

Right.

Wayne Mullins: 00:28:30

The team's going to be on the same page.

Wayne Mullins: 00:28:31

They're going to be engaged.

Wayne Mullins: 00:28:32

So the culture piece is something that, you know, just over time, in working with Literally hundreds and hundreds of business owners.

Wayne Mullins: 00:28:41

We've seen there's such a need in the marketplace.

Wayne Mullins: 00:28:44

And as we started the conversation, this is, in my opinion, the ultimate point of leverage in any organization.

Wayne Mullins: 00:28:53

The power here is so incredibly profound.

Wayne Mullins: 00:28:57

It's more profound than any marketing campaign.

Wayne Mullins: 00:29:00

It's more profound, in my opinion, than any leadership conference or leadership seminar you can do.

Wayne Mullins: 00:29:05

If you can get your culture right, you know, it transforms everything else.

Wayne Mullins: 00:29:11

I think it was Gallup who did a survey semi recently and what they found out is that 70% of employees today are disengaged in the workplace.

Wayne Mullins: 00:29:23

70%.

Wayne Mullins: 00:29:23

So you think about that.

Wayne Mullins: 00:29:25

Two out of three are disengaged.

Wayne Mullins: 00:29:27

They're showing up not engaged.

Wayne Mullins: 00:29:29

And as a leader, if you look across your organization, and that is true for your organization, that is the thing to fix, right?

Wayne Mullins: 00:29:37

That is the place that you must begin.

Wayne Mullins: 00:29:40

It is the, it is the linchpin.

Wayne Mullins: 00:29:43

When you fix.

Wayne Mullins: 00:29:44

It's the fulcrum.

Wayne Mullins: 00:29:44

When you fix this one thing, everything else gets easier.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:29:48

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:29:49

How can you and your agency help business owners and make any positive change in company culture?

Wayne Mullins: 00:29:55

Yeah.

Wayne Mullins: 00:29:55

So one of the things that I've recently started is actually just going in and helping them figure out where they currently stand in terms of their culture.

Wayne Mullins: 00:30:04

I think sometimes because we put culture as this side thing that we're going to get to one day, we don't understand the weight that the culture has on everything else we do.

Wayne Mullins: 00:30:16

So what, what I've been doing is going in number one is kind of doing an audit, like, where actually are you?

Wayne Mullins: 00:30:21

Right.

Wayne Mullins: 00:30:21

Because we have our preconceived notions.

Wayne Mullins: 00:30:24

The team, our team members have a different perspective about what our culture actually looks like and feels like.

Wayne Mullins: 00:30:30

And so ensuring that those two things are on one page is so, so important.

Wayne Mullins: 00:30:35

And that's the starting point.

Wayne Mullins: 00:30:36

From there, we can outline a blueprint of, here's the plan of action, here's what you need to do next.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:30:43

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:30:44

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:30:44

And like I said, if before we.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:30:49

Because we're almost out of time, before we, we go, I want to make sure that you give a brief synopsis of your book, Full Circle Marketing for our audience a little bit.

Wayne Mullins: 00:31:00

Absolutely.

Wayne Mullins: 00:31:00

So the marketing book comes from a couple of core foundational principles that we base all of our marketing around.

Wayne Mullins: 00:31:08

I'm not going to dive into all of that just for sake of time here.

Wayne Mullins: 00:31:11

But what I will say is this, that great marketing really boils down to two things.

Wayne Mullins: 00:31:16

Number one, psychology, and number two, math.

Wayne Mullins: 00:31:20

So psychology, because at the end of the day, marketing's job is to make sales unnecessary.

Wayne Mullins: 00:31:27

What does that mean?

Wayne Mullins: 00:31:28

That simply means this, that when we are really good at marketing, when we have effective marketing campaigns, we don't need to try to convince, try to persuade, try to twist people's arms, try to beg them, plead with them, because the marketing has done the job right?

Wayne Mullins: 00:31:42

The marketing has convinced them.

Wayne Mullins: 00:31:44

Now, the B part to that is math.

Wayne Mullins: 00:31:47

And math's important because, you know, we can't just go out and spend a bunch of money and not hold those dollars accountable.

Wayne Mullins: 00:31:55

So often we hear people say, you know, I'm spending X dollars on marketing.

Wayne Mullins: 00:31:59

I just don't know if it's working, if it's not working.

Wayne Mullins: 00:32:03

If that is you, what I can tell you, without a doubt is that you are doing a bunch of tactical things, right?

Wayne Mullins: 00:32:11

You may be doing some Facebook, you may be doing some SEO, you may be doing radio, television, you name it.

Wayne Mullins: 00:32:16

You may be doing a bunch of things, but you don't have an overarching strategy that brings all of these things together and has them working in a synergistic way.

Wayne Mullins: 00:32:27

Right?

Wayne Mullins: 00:32:27

They're just random things.

Wayne Mullins: 00:32:29

None of them are pulling together.

Wayne Mullins: 00:32:31

And so we see this time and time again where it's like, we're spending a bunch of money, we're doing a bunch of things, but we just don't know what's working or if it's working.

Wayne Mullins: 00:32:39

So psychology and math are the core of what's in the book.

Wayne Mullins: 00:32:43

And it really just walks through, you know, kind of two different marketing principles and how to apply them in your organization.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:32:50

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:32:51

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:32:52

That's good.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:32:52

It's a great book, too.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:32:53

It's a great book.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:32:54

So how can someone order a copy of your book, Full Circuit Growth Marketing.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:33:00

I take it it's on Amazon, correct?

Wayne Mullins: 00:33:02

It is.

Wayne Mullins: 00:33:02

That's the simplest place.

Wayne Mullins: 00:33:03

It's on, you know, most of the online retailers.

Wayne Mullins: 00:33:06

Amazon's probably the simplest for most people.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:33:08

All right.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:33:09

And like I said, Wayne, it's been so interesting.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:33:11

If someone has a question or they'd like to get in touch with you to discuss their company culture, SEO or marketing, maybe even do an interview like this.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:33:19

How can they do that?

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:33:20

How can someone get in touch with you?

Wayne Mullins: 00:33:22

Yeah.

Wayne Mullins: 00:33:22

So two things.

Wayne Mullins: 00:33:23

Number one, our website, uglymug, marketing.com, all of our social channels are there email addresses, are there phone number, contact form?

Wayne Mullins: 00:33:30

So there's plenty of ways there that they can get in touch or they can email me directly.

Wayne Mullins: 00:33:34

And that's just Wayne atUgly Mug Marketing dot com.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:33:38

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:33:39

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:33:39

I'll put links all this in the show notes below.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:33:42

Folks, I pray you got a lot of great information from our interview today with Wayne Mullins and that's going to help you develop a better culture climate in your business.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:33:53

I mean, I know somebody out there had their eyes open to some things that Wayne was sharing today that will positively impact their business going forward.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:34:01

I just know that and that was the purpose of the inter interview.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:34:04

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:34:05

I heard you.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:34:05

Drop down the show notes.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:34:06

Reach out to Wade Mullins and his team over at Ugly Mug Marketing.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:34:09

You will not be disappointed with the results you receive and the results you achieve.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:34:14

Praise God.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:34:15

Just drop down below in the show notes, click the links right there.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:34:17

And don't forget to order a copy of Wayne's book Full Circle Marketing.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:34:21

This book will transform your marketing and turn your customers into evangelists.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:34:25

Bring it up.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:34:26

That's just like the book cover says.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:34:28

Amen.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:34:29

Drop down the shows, click the links right there.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:34:31

Wayne, I want to thank you again for taking the time already busy schedule to come back on and visit with us today.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:34:36

I do appreciate it brother.

Wayne Mullins: 00:34:38

Thank you so much for the great chat as always and I appreciate your time.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:34:42

Amen folks.

Pastor Robert Thibodeau: 00:34:43

That's all the time we have for today for Wayne Wallace, myself, Pastor Bob Remini to be blessed in all that you do.

Pastor Bob: 00:34:49

You have been listening to the Faith Based Business Podcast with Pastor Bob Thibodeau.

Pastor Bob: 00:34:54

We have appreciate you as a listener and fellow believer and want to encourage you in your entrepreneurial efforts.

Pastor Bob: 00:35:01

These programs are designed to provide you with information that you can use in your business to achieve success faster and avoid the obstacles that try to impede your success.

Pastor Bob: 00:35:12

All information on this podcast is for entertainment and information use only.

Pastor Bob: 00:35:17

Some of the products and services listed in the links may contain affiliate links and Pastor Bob will earn a small commission when you click those links at no additional cost to you.

Pastor Bob: 00:35:27

Be sure to subscribe to our podcast so you'll be notified when our next episode is published.

Pastor Bob: 00:35:33

Until next time, be blessed in all that you do.